Money – The economy on replay - the events of 1929 are so scarily similar to today, like then, its still the average person that has to suffer the brunt of 'downturns' and 'recessions' from the work of bankers and rogue financial institutions. Policy makers, policy makers!
and with the crash, famine .... Famine killed 7 million people in USA http://donoevil.propeller.com/story/2008/05/21/...
There are a great deal of similarities between the depression of 1929-1930 and today, just like the article pointed out. This is not scare mongering, this is reading history and looking at similar conditions. Do we learn anything from history? I am no dooms dayer, but I have been saying for several years now we are ripe for a depression, not a recession. The symptoms of a Depression are debt, trade deficit, US Federal Reserve tightening up on money or monetary contraction, lack of government deficit spending by cutting taxes, big business, and inequality of wealth where the middle class disappears. Does any of this sound familiar? Here is the sight where I got most of these symptoms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#U...
With the current mortgage and financial crisis playing out in the US, we are ripe for a crash. I hope it doesn't happen, but the Republicans have done nothing to protect us, and it may be too late for the Democrats.
We are not in a recession, much less a depression. Most of the people who have a hard time today lived it up. Bought houses they couldn't really afford, lived pay day to payday, made disastorous personal decisions, took out multiple credit cards, and then when the economy changes, they have no savings, no job, no interest in retraining. They just want to sit on the couch, and drink beer, and watch T V. They put themselves in crisis. And the Democrats have done nothing to help you poor unfortunates either, and they had years. We are old. we saved money, some times when we had very little, we paid ourself first. Now we are retired, and we don't care what the economy does, we have done well under this administration.
You've done well under this administration? That means you're not a veteran (since Korea that is), lower or middle class, a small business owner, an hourly employee, etc. Basically, you're rich. I don't begrudge you that status; quite the opposite. I just don't think you should be cavalier toward the rest of us who have taken it on the chin due to this administration's disastrous policies. In fact, other than increasing aid to Africa for AIDS, I can't think of a single thing this administration has handled correctly.
Repeat after me, 10,000 times:
We ARE NOT in a recession, we are winning in Iraq, George Bush is the best thing that has EVER happened to this country.
After you repeat it 10,000 times, you WILL believe it and it will become TRUTH!
Yeah analoinky is right Most of the people who are having a hard time have themselves to blame. Those who have retired, had kids, decided to pursue higher education, investing in largely unregulated markets, and are dependent on personal, rather than the sorry state of public transportation throughout the nation....
People just don't understand that if things do get worse, the country will be forced to start taking out the wealthier (not the richest, of course) in forms of taxation to support a much more "socialist" network of safety nets and infrastructure.
I find it amusing how many people think they're all above it, when if you look close, a lot of such seniors are being forced to sell homes to buy little condos or apartments. Little towns where they spent their lives are out-pricing and out-taxing what they can afford to keep up with, even with pensions and savings. All this with municipal incomes shrinking at alarming rates. I don't see a bail-out for them coming.
There will always se speculative bubbles that break, but there has to be alot of factors world wide that come together to cause a depression. As we have seen in just the last little while a change in a countries currency can quickly affect the countries balance of trade which can help restore confidence in the economy and then the cycle starts on it's merry way again.
After saying all that I feel that we are approaching a situation that will lead to a world depression, there are many countries in the world right now that are in an upswing in there economies but many of them count on the U.S. as their market and with ever increasing energy costs in the U.S. the American puplic will cease to consume. The energy factor is the one factor that may not have played a part in previous depressions but it will be a major one this time.
I have been very carefull with my money over my life but I know that there is no safe investment if times get truely tough.
No we are not rich. I bet we make less then you. We are middle class. We don't drink, smoke, or have credit cards. The only time we suffered financially was when Carter was President. There was high interest rates, and no work for the tradesmen for months. I bet you are not even as hard up as you think your are, you should be grateful for what you have, I doubt you are starving with your computer, and computer service.
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What a scare mongering story the economy of today in no way resembles the world economy of 1929. The author of this story is either deliberately trying to scare people or is woefully ignorant of the history of the Great Depression.
You're somewhat correct.
However our country today certainly looks a lot like Imperial Rome at the end of its life.
Dionys
How do you know, were you there? Btw, the Roman Republic lasted 200 years and Imperial Rome lasted a 1000 years. Now explain the similarities, please.
I guess it depends on who's theory you follow. Bury would argue that a contributing factor was that "the Empire had come to depend on the enrollment of barbarians, in large numbers, in the army, and â;¦ it was necessary to render the service attractive to them by the prospect of power and wealth. "
Well we're letting barbarians in the Army (as evidenced by the lowering of standards and number of rapists in the US Army).
Gibbon points to a general sense of moral decay, which seems overly simplistic but is certainly present in a nation that now allows torture and pre-emptive wars. Toynbee and Burke offer that the Roman system was flawed from its inception (yet we mirror their Republic fairly well, especially where corruption is concerned).
Rostovtzeff and Mises argue for unsound economic policies. Seems pretty apparent if you examine the economy.
Others argue a general social, economic and political decline. Seems like the US isn't picking up fast in any of those areas.
I like Joseph Tainter's take on it, though.
I guess we'll see in the next couple of decades how the US fares in the world.
We also let "barbarians" into the army in the form of foreign citizens who are promised a "fast track" to citizenship.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,151...
Wolf
You sound like you're in an enviable position of financial security. Let me assure you however, there are a very large number of people, globaly, including in the U.S., at the very brink of starvation, and countless more aproaching the precipice daily. It isn't for naught that stores are closing, hunger increasing, homes and employments lost etc, etc and so on.
For too many, the end of the tunnel isn't in sight, debt both personal and nation generated have all but extinguished any hopes for the future. This is real, and is happening now.
Sure there is a ever shrinking sgment of the population that is enjoying the fruits of good life. We may not be to far from the point when the uttering of: "let them eat cake" could be dangerous to your well being. Don't tell me I'm wrong, so far I'm doing OK. Tell all those in dire strait that things are great, and "hear" their response. It may not be mongering, but reality you'll hear.
Gran
So what does all that have to do with this article? The subject of which is: are the present economic conditions like the great depression.
Wolf
Sorry. Didn't realize I needed to be absolutely exact in pointing out similarities to the article. Lets see
A depression was forecasted, and later the opinion was changed to: "A depression was outside the range of probability". That sounds familiar.
"The market lost billions, but who will pay the price" The market, meaning wall street. Didn't I see a major investment house being acquired at firesale prices here recently? How many investors lost money on that deal?
"Investors rushing to take advantage of margin lending on stocks.." Recently you could read investors rushing to take advantage of low down payment for houses.
"Banks taking advantage of cheap funds from the reserve and fueling the speculation on the market" Do I really need to go on?
Yes, the conditions aren't EXACTLY the same as in 1929, BUT, there are similarities if you look at the whole picture. Then, maybe I'm just ignorant and don't see nuances.
It appears that we did forget.