Money – Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida has been fighting to cut 10 cents from the state's gasoline tax for two weeks in July. Lawmakers in Missouri, New York and Texas have also proposed a summer break from state gas taxes, while candidates for governor in Indiana and North Carolina are sparring over relief ideas of their own.
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This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It will have a negative impact on state budgets. People may drive more and demand could go up. The profits still go to the oil companies.
Any shortfall in state budgets would then be met with higher property taxes. You can't push something down over there without it coming up over here.
Tell that to the supply-siders sending us these "stimulus" checks and cutting taxes on the "wealthy" (quotes because I'm not sure we can agree on the definition of wealthy).
This is more of the same. People have seen that if they cry about things enough the govt will come up with a pacifier of some kind, usually cash. The country be damned, what happens NOW to ME is what's important, not what will be better for ME LATER.
Idiots.
GIMMICK, plain and simple.
Of course it is. It's more of the same garbage we're getting all the time from the idiots we keep electing. I'm not sure who is more to blame the idiots we keep electing or the idiots that do the electing and then bitch about who they elected.
I think the problem is that both parties are firmly in the Oil Companies AND Middle Eastern oil tsars pockets.
All we can expect to see from Congress is the "Drag, Nag, and Bag." They drag oil company executives or foreign officials in front of them. They nag at them for a few hours to put on a good show for the tax payers. Then they bag their campaign donations.
Clinton has nearly $200,000 in big oil money this election, Obama around $170,000 and McCain $220,000 plus. If you think anyone of these 3 are going to fix the problem you are badly mistaken.
I think that's a symptom of the disease not the disease itself. We've known about peak oil for over fifty years now, but the American consumer hasn't had to really worry about it because energy was cheap due to many different economic factors. That is no longer the case.
We need to address the problem directly by finding a way to eliminate our dependence on oil. All fossil fuels should go that way eventually, but we need to focus on oil RIGHT NOW. Not tomorrow, not five years from now, RIGHT NOW.
It'll be all fun until someone falls off a collapsing interstate.
Not to mention I have no doubt that oil companies will add some of the reduction back into their price just like they always do. I am looking forward to the report on their bottom lines.
Obama is the only one of the 3 who has acknowledged that he voted for a gas tax break in Illinois, and learned by that experience that it does not work. The oil companies did indeed up the price of gas equivalent to the tax break amount, so they did not lose a dime and then the prices continued to climb. At least he was honest enough to own up to his mistake and learn from it.
The problem is that our ever-churning war machine burns through 60% of the world's oil and those who love to see us invade, bomb, shoot up, tear down and rebuild stuff over and over again are 100% to blame--and both parties AREN'T equally to blame for that.
Hey Mesodude:
Where did you get that 60% number?
I will poke around a bit.
"The US military is the biggest purchaser of oil in the world."
http://www.energybulletin.net/13199.html
HMM Supply and Demand?
Combined with the SPR fill that just keeps going, it seems to explain why: better than the develoment in China and India.
I still would like to know where the 60% came from.
Accck...Of course that's ridiculous. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to correct this. I meant to say that the military consumes 60% of *US* oil. The US is 5% of the population and we consume 25% of the world's oil. The war department is the world's single largest purchaser and consumer of oil. So, in short, the difference between my error and what we really spend is the difference between thoroughly revolting and merely sickening. ;-P
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/top_5_facts...
http://nowarnowarming.org/article.php?id=94l
http://www.williambowles.info/venezuela/2006/02...
With respect sir:
If my B.S. meter had not red lined, I would not have learned that DOD is the largest consumer of oil in the world.
It leaves no doubt in my mind that when I cringe when the dashboard beeps and the low fuel lights up, that the war is reaching into my pocket.
This is real.
What a stupid idea. Just what one would expect from pimps, panderers, and politicians. Create a worse problem from a bad one.
Try balancing the federal budget and watching the dollar increase in value.
Try not flushing a trillion or so down the Iraq toilet.
Naaahhhhh. No profit in that nonsense. Keep subsidizing the super rich and screwing the working stiffs.
Where did you get that number (60%)???
Don't make crap up, meso.
Thats why I have been very tempted not to vote at all. That way I can not be held responsible for the idiot in the office.
" It's more of the same garbage we're getting all the time from the idiots we keep electing."
--Well, actually we tend to like the people we elect and re-elect. It's *everyone else's* choices we bitch about.
Both. They are perfect matches.
04/04/08
Pandering like "Pelosi calls for second stimulus package" before the checks for the first package were even in the mail?
What's sad is that this nation have enough idiots who buy into this crap. Aw it makes me so mad that we might end up with another one of these guys as president! Dumbest idea YET
That is a side effect of democracy. You suffer as a result of other idiots.
Apart from dictatorship, the best way for government to hang on to power is to ensure stupidity of the mass.
But I don't remember hearing anyone on the right complain that those tax rebate checks Bush gave Americans after 9/11 (right after telling Americans don't-worry-go-shopping) or the GOP conceived $50 gas rebate cards from two years ago were pandering. I wonder why...
It's all pandering as far as I am concerned or don't you think the Pelosi idea is pandering?
LOL I don't even recall the gas rebate card.
This is not a good idea, it's intent is to appease and that's it. What will happen here is they will give us a 10c brake at the pumps and hike the toles 50c or something else. Most states are in so much debt they cannot afford to lose this money, it's not sound decision making. It's like the tax cut, this will only benefit the rich because they don't have to lower the price they still get to bilk us, and i bet they will raise the price to take away the fake savings. What shocks me the most is that the Welfare detractors are all for this, what a bunch of hypocrites...this will only make things worse...if you are in doubt check out the tax cut and the state of our nation!
This is why I am voting for Obama...he was the only one to call this what it is. It shows me that this guy is for real. He said it was a stupid idea and an 8 grader can see that it is. His thinking of actually finding a way to lower the cost of gas makes more sense to me!To me this is another bush like move it's so stupid it laughable!
It's very easy to criticize.
Did you hear his solution when he was on Meet the Press?
It certainly wasn't a solution - $1000 tax break for anyone in the middle class
Please confirm the date of that show. I don't remember hearing that.
May 4th and here is the link to the transcript
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24445166/
Thank you for the link. good to know.
Nostalgia - you need to re-watch that clip his $1000.00 you talk about is a second phase of the bush economic stimulus package. What he is saying is give the people some real relied than some symbolic BS like this. I don't know about you but i am for that!
It's on page 3 of the transcript
RUSSERT: One issue that has really defined the two campaigns here in Indiana is this debate over gasoline
OBAMA: Right.
RUSSERT: ...the price of it and whether there should be a tax holiday
OBAMA: Right
RUSSERT: ...from the federal taxes. This is Hillary Clinton's ad talking about you. Let's watch
RUSSERT: Why are you against giving taxpayers in Indiana, North Carolina, a relief from federal gasoline tax this summer?
OBAMA: You're right, Tim, this defines, I think, the difference between myself and Senator Clinton. This gas tax, which was first proposed by John McCain and then quickly adopted by Senator Clinton, is a classic Washington gimmick ...nd, by the way, I have some experience on this because in Illinois we tried this when I was in the state legislature, and that's exactly what happened. The oil companies, the retailers were the ones who ended up benefiting
RUSSERT: You voted for it, too.
OBAMA: I did. Exactly. And that
RUSSERT: When gas was only $2 a gallon
OBAMA: And, and that's my point. I voted for it, and then six months later we took a look, and consumers had not benefited at all, but we had lost revenue.
Obama's $1000 idea comes in his next response
OBAMA: And what I've said is, look, people do need serious relief. They are, are getting hammered. I mean, people who--can't go on job searches because they can't fill up their gas tank. And so what I've said is, let's accelerate a--the second half of a tax stimulus proposal that I had put forward that would put, immediately, hundreds of dollars into people's pockets to get through the summer; let's pass a permanent middle-class tax cut, $1,000 per family, to offset the payroll tax to deal not just with rising costs of gas, but also rising costs of food, rising costs of prescription drugs
Not a Bush stimulus package - an idea Obama put forward
I have found no legislation that offers this, have you??
"permanent middle-class tax cut, $1,000 per family, to offset the payroll tax"
No I'm not for this. How can you offer a tax cut to offset payroll taxes when SS is already in trouble??
"most importantly, let's invest in alternative fuels, raising fuel efficiency standards on cars, and let's get serious about reducing consumption of oil, which is the only way that, over the long term, we're going to reduce, we're going to reduce gas prices."
"I don't want, 20 years from now, to have a bunch of politicians proposing a suspension of the gas tax holiday when gas is $8 or $10 a gallon because we failed to act now."
Alternatives & CAFE standards won't let us avoid $8-$10 gas. Anything we save with those measures will be consumed by India & China.
"serious about reducing consumption of oil" That's the key but HOW??? He has no plan
The gas tax is regressive in any case, and moving away from it would not be a bad idea. Similar in effect to the food tax. Consumption taxes on non-essential items would be more beneficial for lower income citizens.
Ironically, what you are describing is akin to a luxury tax, something that most republicans are not too hot on.
I know that many Libertarians favor consumption-based taxes. I tend to have some Libertarian ideas. Many years of state government work experience taught me how regressive much of the funding on which state governments rely is.
I'm certainly not debating the issue. If it were up to me it would be a flat tax or consumption tax. That way if a billionaire wants to buy a yacht, he pays tax. There are no deductions to hide income behind. If someone living at the poverty line wants to buy a wii system, they pay a tax. They are free to make a decision that may not in their best interest financially, but they must pay the tax as well. It simplifies many things.
There is the debate of what should be exempt, like food, which I probably could support. My fear is that the definition of food may change to determine if it should be taxed or not.
Yeah, like ketchup and certain menu items at jack and the box.
GMO Potatoes served in fast food chains are classified as pesticides.
www.fairtax.com!!!!!!!!!
Consumption based taxes are great. We should also heavily tax those who buy large SUVs and Trucks but don't use them for construction.
How do we tax hybrids or the electric, natural gas and hydrogen fueled vehicles. They will be using the highways also
If the problem with road/bridge repair is bad now, it will only get worse as the Feds and states see gas tax revenues fall
The reason diesel is taxed at a higher rate than gasoline is because generally diesel trucks are heavier and put more wear and tear on the infrastructure.
I know it is not fair to the guy that buys a 60 mpg diesel VW, but it is simpler.
Alternative fuel vehicles tend to be light weight. Combined with the value of moving in that direction I like the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple silly) principle.
I realize that the diesel trucks pay more.
I was only talking about private cars/trucks
But I can guarantee you that as more hybrids etc are on the road and gas tax revenues fall, the politicians will move away from the gas tax
I wouldn't be surprised to see them try and tax according to the miles driven or a combination of miles driven and weight.
That would probably be the fair solution
What can I say? I am a tree hugging Moonbat.
If revenues fall to the point where infrastructure can not be maintained, then other ways will have to be looked at.
For now I see as it as an effective tax incentive to wean our dependence on foreign oil.
I wonder what would happen the day the gas tax relief ends?
I imagine there will be long lines at the stations of folks topping off the tank before the prices go up again.
I remember running out of gas with an odd numbered plate. It sucked.
We are already in trouble with the Federal Highway Trust Fund
They spent every dime in the last transportation bill including all of the pork
The politicians just can't help themselves
But we have to be realistic - we are NOT going to be able to stop importing oil for decades
In the mean time it is the low income and many in the middle class who are struggling.
When the price of gas AND food increases so dramatically, they are the ones who get hit the hardest and there is no end in sight for them
"But we have to be realistic - we are NOT going to be able to stop importing oil for decades "
We also have to be realistic that we can no longer be dependent on oil and that within decades (or much sooner) we should have alternatives in place. Which means investing actual money into alternatives. Not sinking more money into already failing systems.
That's very true
But the emphsis on alternative fuels and CAFE standards aren't going to get us there
The auto industry is an easy target for politicians but private cars & trucks only account for ~20% of our oil consumption - that is according to a group of economists, energy experts etc It was a discussion I watched several weeks ago on TV
Washington needs to look at where we are using the most energy if we ever expect to be oil independent - electricity generation
The World Factbook
Electricity - production: 4.062 trillion kWh (2005)
Electricity - production by source: fossil fuel: 71.4%
hydro: 5.6%
nuclear: 20.7%
other: 2.3% (2001)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-wo...
This should be a huge target for DC. Nuclear and coal needs to be in the mix
Obama on Meet the Press: Nuclear Yes. BUT...
Coal Yes BUT...
Obama addresed this on a question about climate change. Page 4 of the Meet the Press transcript
One word. Turnpikes. Toss in 50 cents everytime you use a busy thoroughfare and it generates a ***tload of revenue in a few short months.
Toll roads are getting more numerous here
In fact, one toll tag allows you to drive through the toll gates and the fee is deducted from the money in your toll tag account
Are you in Washington? The Tacoma Narrows Bridge works that way.